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Survivor: theoretical physics

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Some very interesting data here on jobs in particle theory, cosmology, string theory and gravity over the last 15 years in the US (1994 — present).

Based on these numbers and the quality of the talent pool I would guess theoretical physics is the most competitive field in academia, by a large margin. (Your luck will be much, much better in computer science, engineering, biology, …)

The average number of years between completing the PhD and first faculty job is between 5-6. That would make the typical new assistant professor about 33, and almost 40 by the time they receive tenure.

Here are the top schools for producing professors in these fields:

1. Princeton 23 (string theory rules! or ruled… or something)
2. Harvard 18
3. Berkeley 16

This is over 15 years, so that means even at the top three schools only 1 or at most 2 PhDs from a given year typically gets a job in the US. The US is by far the most competitive market. If you follow the link you will see that the list of PhD institutions of US faculty members is truly international, including Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, etc. (Note I think the jobs data also includes positions at Canadian research universities.)

The field is very much dominated by the top departments; the next most successful include MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Chicago, etc.

Here are some well-known schools that only produced 1 professor of theoretical physics over 15 years: UCLA, UC Davis, U Illinois, U Virginia, U Arizona, Boston University, U Penn, Northwestern, Moscow State University (top university in USSR), Insitute for Nuclear Research (INR) Moscow

Here are some well-known schools that only produced 2 professors over 15 years: Ohio State, U Minnesota, Michigan State, U Colorado, Brown

Here are some well-known schools that only produced 3 professors over 15 years: Columbia, CERN, Johns Hopkins, U Maryland, Yale, Pisa SNS (Scoula Normale Superiore; the most elite university in Italy), Novisibirsk (giant physics lab in USSR)

You can see that by the time we reach 3 professors produced over 15 years we are talking about very, very good physics departments. Even many of the schools in the 1 and 2 category are extremely good. These schools have all hired multiple professors over 15 years, but the people hired tend to have been produced by the very top departments. The flow is from the top down.

This dataset describes a very big talent pool — I would guess that a top 50 department (in the world) produces 3-5 PhDs a year in theoretical physics. If most of them only place a student every 5 years or so, that means the majority of their students end up doing something else!

How many professors do you think are / were straight with their PhD students about the odds of survival?

I only knew one professor at Berkeley who had kept records and knew the odds. One day in the theory lounge at LBNL Mahiko Suzuki (PhD, University of Tokyo) told me and some other shocked grad students and postdocs that about 1 in 4 theory PhDs from Berkeley would get permanent positions. His estimate was remarkably accurate.

How many professors do you think had / have a serious discussion with their students about alternative career paths?

How many have even a vague understanding of what the vast majority of their former students do in finance, silicon valley, …?

Related posts: A tale of two geeks , Out on the tail

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Written by infoproc

September 24, 2008 at 4:17 pm

Don’t become a scientist! Philip Greenspun edition

with 12 comments

I recently came across this essay by Philip Greenspun, which examines, in brutal detail, the negative aspects of a career in science. It goes way beyond my previous writings on the subject 🙂 Greenspun’s essay was occasioned by the Larry Summers affair, and his main point regarding women in science is that science is such a crummy career choice that only testosterone-poisoned (overly competitive and status-driven) men would be stupid enough to pursue it. I’m not sure I agree completely with that perspective, but I like his essay quite a bit.

Some other themes he touches on: (a) sample bias; people are typically only familiar with the lives and careers of exceptionally successful scientists: In short, some young people think that science is a good career for the same reason that they think being a musician or actor is a good career: “I can’t decide if I want to be a scientist like James Watson, a musician like Britney Spears, or an actor like Harrison Ford.”, and (b) foreign immigration as a source of scientific talent: Science may be one of the lowest paid fields for high IQ people in the U.S., but it pays a lot better than most jobs in China or India.

Incidentally, I met Philip many years ago through a common friend who is a scientist at Harvard, at one of the many parties she hosted. (When I first wrote this post I thought she and Philip had been housemates, but she says that recollection is incorrect. I think I do remember his dog Alex, though.) At one of these parties I met Steve Pinker in the kitchen. After a long conversation about his research I remember thinking: gee, isn’t that all kind of obvious? Don’t you wish you understood Yang-Mills theory? I was still a kid, just like Albert Q. Mathnerd described below 🙂

You might like to dismiss Greenspun’s perspective on this subject, but keep in mind that the guy earned a math SB (at 18) and PhD in EECS at MIT and founded several software startups. So he’s not entirely clueless about how the academic and real worlds work.

Adjusted for IQ, quantitative skills, and working hours, jobs in science are the lowest paid in the United States.

This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs.

Why does anyone think science is a good job?

The average trajectory for a successful scientist is the following:

age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college

age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month

age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year

age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year

age 44: with young children at home (if lucky), fired by the university (“denied tenure” is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s

This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn’t quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a “second rate has-been” label on his forehead.

…Consider someone taking the kind of high IQ and drive that would be required to obtain a tenure-track position at U.C. Berkeley and going into medicine. This person would very likely be a top specialist of some sort, earning at least $300,000 per year. Instead of being fired at age 44, our medical specialist would be near the height of her value to her patients and employer. Her experience and reputation would continue to add to her salary and prestige until she was perhaps 60 years old. [A woman who wanted to spend more time with her children can choose from a variety of medical careers, such as emergency medicine, that involve shift work and where a high salary can be earned with just two or three shifts per week. She could also work from home as a radiologist reading data transmitted via Internet.]

Consider taking the same high IQ and work ethic, going into business, and being put on the fast track at a company such as General Electric. Rather than being fired at age 44, this is about the time that she will be handed ever-larger divisions to operate, with ever-larger bonuses and stock options.

A top lawyer at age 44 is probably a $500,000 per year partner in a big firm, a judge, or a professor at a law school supplementing her $200,000 per year salary with some private work. …

What about the excitement and fun of science?

Is life all about money and job security? What about excitement and fun? Isn’t that a good reason to choose a job? Sure! I love every minute of my $8 per hour job as a helicopter instructor, but on the other hand I don’t say that it is a great career and I can’t understand why there aren’t more women helicopter instructors.

Some scientists are like kids who never grow up. They love what they do, are excited by the possibilities of their research, and wear a big smile most days. Although these people are, by Boston standards, ridiculously poor and they will never be able to afford a house (within a one-hour drive of their job) or support a family, I don’t feel sorry for them.

Unfortunately, this kind of child-like joy is not typical. The tenured Nobel Prize winners are pretty happy, but they are a small proportion of the total. The average scientist that I encounter expresses bitterness about (a) low pay, (b) not getting enough credit or references to his or her work, (c) not knowing where the next job is coming from, (d) not having enough money or job security to get married and/or have children. If these folks were experiencing day-to-day joy at their bench, I wouldn’t expect them to hold onto so much bitterness and envy.

…The most serious concern is that the field that a youngster found fascinating at age 20 will no longer be fascinating after 20 or 25 years. If you have a narrow education and have been earning an academic salary, it is much tougher to change careers at age 45 or 50 than for someone who was in a job where the earnings are higher and begin at a younger age. A doctor who practices for 10 years can easily save enough to finance a switch to almost any other occupation. A successful lawyer can walk away after 15 or 20 years, commute to school from his oceanfront and town houses, and become a furniture maker (my friend’s dad did this).

Why do American men (boys, actually) do it?

Pursuing science as a career seems so irrational that one wonders why any young American would do it. Yet we do find some young Americans starting out in the sciences and they are mostly men. When the Larry Summers story first broke, I wrote in my Weblog:

A lot more men than women choose to do seemingly irrational things such as become petty criminals, fly homebuilt helicopters, play video games, and keep tropical fish as pets (98 percent of the attendees at the American Cichlid Association convention that I last attended were male). Should we be surprised that it is mostly men who spend 10 years banging their heads against an equation-filled blackboard in hopes of landing a $35,000/year post-doc job?

Having been both a student and teacher at MIT, my personal explanation for men going into science is the following:

young men strive to achieve high status among their peer group

men tend to lack perspective and are unable to step back and ask the question “is this peer group worth impressing?”

Consider Albert Q. Mathnerd, a math undergrad at MIT (“Course 18” we call it). He works hard and beats his chest to demonstrate that he is the best math nerd at MIT. This is important to Albert because most of his friends are math majors and the rest of his friends are in wimpier departments, impressed that Albert has even taken on such demanding classes. Albert never reflects on the fact that the guy who was the best math undergrad at MIT 20 years ago is now an entry-level public school teacher in Nebraska, having failed to get tenure at a 2nd tier university. When Albert goes to graduate school to get his PhD, his choice will have the same logical foundation as John Hinckley’s attempt to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Ronald Reagan. …

Written by infoproc

May 4, 2008 at 4:35 pm

Don’t become a scientist! Philip Greenspun edition

leave a comment »

I recently came across this essay by Philip Greenspun, which examines, in brutal detail, the negative aspects of a career in science. It goes way beyond my previous writings on the subject 🙂 Greenspun’s essay was occasioned by the Larry Summers affair, and his main point regarding women in science is that science is such a crummy career choice that only testosterone-poisoned (overly competitive and status-driven) men would be stupid enough to pursue it. I’m not sure I agree completely with that perspective, but I like his essay quite a bit.

Some other themes he touches on: (a) sample bias; people are typically only familiar with the lives and careers of exceptionally successful scientists: In short, some young people think that science is a good career for the same reason that they think being a musician or actor is a good career: “I can’t decide if I want to be a scientist like James Watson, a musician like Britney Spears, or an actor like Harrison Ford.”, and (b) foreign immigration as a source of scientific talent: Science may be one of the lowest paid fields for high IQ people in the U.S., but it pays a lot better than most jobs in China or India.

Incidentally, I met Philip many years ago through a common friend who is a scientist at Harvard, at one of the many parties she hosted. (When I first wrote this post I thought she and Philip had been housemates, but she says that recollection is incorrect. I think I do remember his dog Alex, though.) At one of these parties I met Steve Pinker in the kitchen. After a long conversation about his research I remember thinking: gee, isn’t that all kind of obvious? Don’t you wish you understood Yang-Mills theory? I was still a kid, just like Albert Q. Mathnerd described below 🙂

You might like to dismiss Greenspun’s perspective on this subject, but keep in mind that the guy earned a math SB (at 18) and PhD in EECS at MIT and founded several software startups. So he’s not entirely clueless about how the academic and real worlds work.

Adjusted for IQ, quantitative skills, and working hours, jobs in science are the lowest paid in the United States.

This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs.

Why does anyone think science is a good job?

The average trajectory for a successful scientist is the following:

age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college

age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month

age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year

age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year

age 44: with young children at home (if lucky), fired by the university (“denied tenure” is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s

This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn’t quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a “second rate has-been” label on his forehead.

…Consider someone taking the kind of high IQ and drive that would be required to obtain a tenure-track position at U.C. Berkeley and going into medicine. This person would very likely be a top specialist of some sort, earning at least $300,000 per year. Instead of being fired at age 44, our medical specialist would be near the height of her value to her patients and employer. Her experience and reputation would continue to add to her salary and prestige until she was perhaps 60 years old. [A woman who wanted to spend more time with her children can choose from a variety of medical careers, such as emergency medicine, that involve shift work and where a high salary can be earned with just two or three shifts per week. She could also work from home as a radiologist reading data transmitted via Internet.]

Consider taking the same high IQ and work ethic, going into business, and being put on the fast track at a company such as General Electric. Rather than being fired at age 44, this is about the time that she will be handed ever-larger divisions to operate, with ever-larger bonuses and stock options.

A top lawyer at age 44 is probably a $500,000 per year partner in a big firm, a judge, or a professor at a law school supplementing her $200,000 per year salary with some private work. …

What about the excitement and fun of science?

Is life all about money and job security? What about excitement and fun? Isn’t that a good reason to choose a job? Sure! I love every minute of my $8 per hour job as a helicopter instructor, but on the other hand I don’t say that it is a great career and I can’t understand why there aren’t more women helicopter instructors.

Some scientists are like kids who never grow up. They love what they do, are excited by the possibilities of their research, and wear a big smile most days. Although these people are, by Boston standards, ridiculously poor and they will never be able to afford a house (within a one-hour drive of their job) or support a family, I don’t feel sorry for them.

Unfortunately, this kind of child-like joy is not typical. The tenured Nobel Prize winners are pretty happy, but they are a small proportion of the total. The average scientist that I encounter expresses bitterness about (a) low pay, (b) not getting enough credit or references to his or her work, (c) not knowing where the next job is coming from, (d) not having enough money or job security to get married and/or have children. If these folks were experiencing day-to-day joy at their bench, I wouldn’t expect them to hold onto so much bitterness and envy.

…The most serious concern is that the field that a youngster found fascinating at age 20 will no longer be fascinating after 20 or 25 years. If you have a narrow education and have been earning an academic salary, it is much tougher to change careers at age 45 or 50 than for someone who was in a job where the earnings are higher and begin at a younger age. A doctor who practices for 10 years can easily save enough to finance a switch to almost any other occupation. A successful lawyer can walk away after 15 or 20 years, commute to school from his oceanfront and town houses, and become a furniture maker (my friend’s dad did this).

Why do American men (boys, actually) do it?

Pursuing science as a career seems so irrational that one wonders why any young American would do it. Yet we do find some young Americans starting out in the sciences and they are mostly men. When the Larry Summers story first broke, I wrote in my Weblog:

A lot more men than women choose to do seemingly irrational things such as become petty criminals, fly homebuilt helicopters, play video games, and keep tropical fish as pets (98 percent of the attendees at the American Cichlid Association convention that I last attended were male). Should we be surprised that it is mostly men who spend 10 years banging their heads against an equation-filled blackboard in hopes of landing a $35,000/year post-doc job?

Having been both a student and teacher at MIT, my personal explanation for men going into science is the following:

young men strive to achieve high status among their peer group

men tend to lack perspective and are unable to step back and ask the question “is this peer group worth impressing?”

Consider Albert Q. Mathnerd, a math undergrad at MIT (“Course 18” we call it). He works hard and beats his chest to demonstrate that he is the best math nerd at MIT. This is important to Albert because most of his friends are math majors and the rest of his friends are in wimpier departments, impressed that Albert has even taken on such demanding classes. Albert never reflects on the fact that the guy who was the best math undergrad at MIT 20 years ago is now an entry-level public school teacher in Nebraska, having failed to get tenure at a 2nd tier university. When Albert goes to graduate school to get his PhD, his choice will have the same logical foundation as John Hinckley’s attempt to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Ronald Reagan. …

Written by infoproc

May 4, 2008 at 4:35 pm

Don’t become a scientist! Philip Greenspun edition

leave a comment »

I recently came across this essay by Philip Greenspun, which examines, in brutal detail, the negative aspects of a career in science. It goes way beyond my previous writings on the subject 🙂 Greenspun’s essay was occasioned by the Larry Summers affair, and his main point regarding women in science is that science is such a crummy career choice that only testosterone-poisoned (overly competitive and status-driven) men would be stupid enough to pursue it. I’m not sure I agree completely with that perspective, but I like his essay quite a bit.

Some other themes he touches on: (a) sample bias; people are typically only familiar with the lives and careers of exceptionally successful scientists: In short, some young people think that science is a good career for the same reason that they think being a musician or actor is a good career: “I can’t decide if I want to be a scientist like James Watson, a musician like Britney Spears, or an actor like Harrison Ford.”, and (b) foreign immigration as a source of scientific talent: Science may be one of the lowest paid fields for high IQ people in the U.S., but it pays a lot better than most jobs in China or India.

Incidentally, I met Philip many years ago through a common friend who is a scientist at Harvard, at one of the many parties she hosted. (When I first wrote this post I thought she and Philip had been housemates, but she says that recollection is incorrect. I think I do remember his dog Alex, though.) At one of these parties I met Steve Pinker in the kitchen. After a long conversation about his research I remember thinking: gee, isn’t that all kind of obvious? Don’t you wish you understood Yang-Mills theory? I was still a kid, just like Albert Q. Mathnerd described below 🙂

You might like to dismiss Greenspun’s perspective on this subject, but keep in mind that the guy earned a math SB (at 18) and PhD in EECS at MIT and founded several software startups. So he’s not entirely clueless about how the academic and real worlds work.

Adjusted for IQ, quantitative skills, and working hours, jobs in science are the lowest paid in the United States.

This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs.

Why does anyone think science is a good job?

The average trajectory for a successful scientist is the following:

age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college

age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month

age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year

age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year

age 44: with young children at home (if lucky), fired by the university (“denied tenure” is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s

This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn’t quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a “second rate has-been” label on his forehead.

…Consider someone taking the kind of high IQ and drive that would be required to obtain a tenure-track position at U.C. Berkeley and going into medicine. This person would very likely be a top specialist of some sort, earning at least $300,000 per year. Instead of being fired at age 44, our medical specialist would be near the height of her value to her patients and employer. Her experience and reputation would continue to add to her salary and prestige until she was perhaps 60 years old. [A woman who wanted to spend more time with her children can choose from a variety of medical careers, such as emergency medicine, that involve shift work and where a high salary can be earned with just two or three shifts per week. She could also work from home as a radiologist reading data transmitted via Internet.]

Consider taking the same high IQ and work ethic, going into business, and being put on the fast track at a company such as General Electric. Rather than being fired at age 44, this is about the time that she will be handed ever-larger divisions to operate, with ever-larger bonuses and stock options.

A top lawyer at age 44 is probably a $500,000 per year partner in a big firm, a judge, or a professor at a law school supplementing her $200,000 per year salary with some private work. …

What about the excitement and fun of science?

Is life all about money and job security? What about excitement and fun? Isn’t that a good reason to choose a job? Sure! I love every minute of my $8 per hour job as a helicopter instructor, but on the other hand I don’t say that it is a great career and I can’t understand why there aren’t more women helicopter instructors.

Some scientists are like kids who never grow up. They love what they do, are excited by the possibilities of their research, and wear a big smile most days. Although these people are, by Boston standards, ridiculously poor and they will never be able to afford a house (within a one-hour drive of their job) or support a family, I don’t feel sorry for them.

Unfortunately, this kind of child-like joy is not typical. The tenured Nobel Prize winners are pretty happy, but they are a small proportion of the total. The average scientist that I encounter expresses bitterness about (a) low pay, (b) not getting enough credit or references to his or her work, (c) not knowing where the next job is coming from, (d) not having enough money or job security to get married and/or have children. If these folks were experiencing day-to-day joy at their bench, I wouldn’t expect them to hold onto so much bitterness and envy.

…The most serious concern is that the field that a youngster found fascinating at age 20 will no longer be fascinating after 20 or 25 years. If you have a narrow education and have been earning an academic salary, it is much tougher to change careers at age 45 or 50 than for someone who was in a job where the earnings are higher and begin at a younger age. A doctor who practices for 10 years can easily save enough to finance a switch to almost any other occupation. A successful lawyer can walk away after 15 or 20 years, commute to school from his oceanfront and town houses, and become a furniture maker (my friend’s dad did this).

Why do American men (boys, actually) do it?

Pursuing science as a career seems so irrational that one wonders why any young American would do it. Yet we do find some young Americans starting out in the sciences and they are mostly men. When the Larry Summers story first broke, I wrote in my Weblog:

A lot more men than women choose to do seemingly irrational things such as become petty criminals, fly homebuilt helicopters, play video games, and keep tropical fish as pets (98 percent of the attendees at the American Cichlid Association convention that I last attended were male). Should we be surprised that it is mostly men who spend 10 years banging their heads against an equation-filled blackboard in hopes of landing a $35,000/year post-doc job?

Having been both a student and teacher at MIT, my personal explanation for men going into science is the following:

young men strive to achieve high status among their peer group

men tend to lack perspective and are unable to step back and ask the question “is this peer group worth impressing?”

Consider Albert Q. Mathnerd, a math undergrad at MIT (“Course 18” we call it). He works hard and beats his chest to demonstrate that he is the best math nerd at MIT. This is important to Albert because most of his friends are math majors and the rest of his friends are in wimpier departments, impressed that Albert has even taken on such demanding classes. Albert never reflects on the fact that the guy who was the best math undergrad at MIT 20 years ago is now an entry-level public school teacher in Nebraska, having failed to get tenure at a 2nd tier university. When Albert goes to graduate school to get his PhD, his choice will have the same logical foundation as John Hinckley’s attempt to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Ronald Reagan. …

Written by infoproc

May 4, 2008 at 4:35 pm

Wanted: a beautiful mind

leave a comment »

Nice work if you can get it! (I mean Brian Grazer’s gig, not the “cultural attaché” cum intellectual lackey…)

New Yorker: …The rumor, according to one (unofficial) e-mail: “Oscar-winning producer Brian Grazer (Da Vinci Code, A Beautiful Mind, American Gangster) is looking for a new cultural attaché.” The e-mail explained:

This person would be responsible for keeping Brian abreast of everything that’s going on in the world; politically, culturally, musically. . . . They’re also responsible for finding an interesting person for Brian to meet with every week . . . an astronaut, a journalist, a philosopher, a buddhist monk. . . . There is LOTS of reading for this position! Grazer may ask you to read any book he’s interested in. You’ll probably get to read about 4 or 5 books a week and you may be required to travel with him on his private plane to Hawaii, New York, Europe—teaching him anything he asks you about along the way. . . . You will also be provided with an assistant. . . . Salary is around $150,000 a year. . . . You will be to Grazer what Karl Rove was to Bush.

…Michael Rosenberg, the president of Imagine, the production company Grazer owns with Ron Howard, said that about a hundred would-be attachés have e-mailed résumés since word of the job got out. One was Ed Cooke, twenty-six, a British writer and education consultant. His résumé: philosophy-and-psych degree from Oxford, three languages, a demonstrated interest in “the philosophy of cricket.” “This seemed like a job that would suit me,” Cooke said. He’d sent in a list of interesting people: the medieval scholar Mary Carruthers; the cricket star Shane Warne; Dmitri Nabokov.

But Cooke didn’t make the final cut. By last week, Grazer’s staff had already narrowed the potential attachés down to four finalists, who would interview with the boss. “I’ve met a lot of good candidates,” Grazer said, reached on his cell phone en route to a meeting with the screenwriter for “Angels and Demons.” He said that he’d been hiring cultural attachés for twenty years, ever since he asked Jonas Salk’s assistant to help him track down interesting people in science. Fifteen or twenty people have held the job since then. (The “attaché” title started out as a joke.) “They have to be really resourceful,” Grazer said. “I like to meet people in dangerous organizations, and my cultural attaché finds out who that person is—who runs the Yakuza, or the Masons, or MI5.” The best attaché so far, Grazer said, has been Brad Grossman, the current one, who is leaving the post, after four years. Grossman is thirty-two; he owned a tutoring business before taking the job, and Grazer said that he is especially good at explaining the things he’s asked to learn about—bacteria or makeup or superdelegates. “I’m looking for a person who has that teacherlike quality,” Grazer said. “Also, it’s good to have a person who is a connector, who is liked by people.”

Grazer has had one bad attaché experience. “A few years ago, I hired this really smarty-pants Harvard guy,” he said. “He was just remarkably lazy. If he didn’t get the Wall Street Journal on his desk, it was like it didn’t exist.” Still, he said, the experience came with a lesson: “Under no condition can you teach curiosity.”

Before Grazer became a successful producer, he was—like most people— his own cultural attaché. Two weeks ago, he found a letter he’d written to the physicist Edward Teller during that period. “It made me remember how much work it was,” Grazer said. “I had to do the begging and grovelling and ass-kissing myself. I had to find the newspapers and magazines. Even then, I put so much thought and effort into trying to meet and learn from the people who mattered to me.”

Written by infoproc

March 14, 2008 at 1:03 am

Posted in careers, gilded age

Honors college survey

with 15 comments

I was invited to address a class this morning in the Clark Honors College at U Oregon. The Honors College is like a small, select, liberal arts college within the university that requires special admission. It’s one of the oldest honors colleges in the country and has (I’m told) a very good reputation. Most of its students could probably have been accepted at elite private colleges, but are getting a less expensive education here.

At the end of the class I took a survey. I was particularly interested in the level of interest in science and science careers, and the level of awareness about the kinds of elite career paths that are common for Ivy League students. As I mentioned in an earlier post, about 50% of Harvard graduates now head into finance. It was my hypothesis (confirmed by the survey results) that even top students at public universities are generally unaware of these relatively new career options, as opposed to traditional high status jobs in fields like law, science and medicine.

Studies of a previous generation of students showed, after controlling for SAT score, little difference in lifetime earnings between graduates of elite and non-elite universities. I doubt that will be true for this generation — some essential social capital is missing from the public school experience, in particular, knowledge of the very existence of the most lucrative career options. (Of related interest: David Wessel of the WSJ comments on the finance bubble and the NYTimes on how the legal and medical professions have lost allure.)

Survey

25 participants, roughly equal numbers of seniors and juniors and a smaller number of sophomores. About 1/3 of the students were science majors. Some of the numbers below are estimates, as I had to quickly count the number of raised hands.

Number of frequent MySpace users: 3/25
Number of frequent FaceBook users: 25/25

Would you be unhappy if your annual salary never exceeds $100k per annum (in today’s dollars)? only 3/25 said yes — amazing!

Do you feel you have a good understanding of / do you think it is important to understand :

DNA and evolution 16 / 16
special relativity 3 / 7
internet technology 3 / 6
the operation of a nuclear bomb 3 / 6

Have you ever written a computer program of > 100 lines not required for a class? 0/ 25 (!!!)

Can you give a job description for the following:

management consultant 1/25
investment banker 5/25
derivatives trader 0/25
venture capitalist 7/25

Can you tell me what fraction of a normally distributed population is >4 standard deviations above the mean? 0/25 (a few knew it was a small fraction, but no one gave an estimate within an order of magnitude)

Written by infoproc

January 18, 2008 at 12:39 am

Posted in careers, students today

From physics to finance

with 7 comments

Professor Akash Bandyopadhyay recounts his career trajectory from theoretical physics to Wall Street to the faculty of the graduate school of business at Chicago in this interview.

One small comment: Bandyopadhyay says below that banks hire the very best PhDs from theoretical physics. I think he meant to say that, generally, they hire the very best among those who don’t find jobs in physics. Unfortunately, few are able to find permanent positions in the field.

Mike K. — if you’re reading this, why didn’t you reply to the guy’s email? 🙂

CB: Having a Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics, you certainly have quite a unique background compared to most other faculty members here at the GSB. Making a transition from Natural Science to Financial Economics and becoming a faculty member at the most premier financial school in the world in a short span of five years is quite an unbelievable accomplishment! Can you briefly talk about how you ended up at the GSB?

AB: Sure. It is a long story. In 1999, I was finishing up my Ph.D. in theoretical physics at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign when I started to realize that the job situation for theoretical physicists is absolutely dismal. Let alone UIUC, it was very difficult for physicists from even Harvard or Princeton to find decent jobs. As a matter of fact, once, when I was shopping at a Wal-Mart in the Garden State, I bumped into a few people who had Ph.D. in theoretical physics from Princeton and they were working at the Wal-Mart’s check-out counter. Yes, Wal-Mart! I could not believe it myself!

CB: So, what options did you have at that point?

AB: When I started to look at the job market for theoretical physicists, I found that the top investment banks hire the very best of the fresh Ph.D.s. I started to realize that finance (and not physics!) is the heart of the real world and Wall Street is the hub of activity. So, I wanted to work on Wall Street – not at Wal-Mart! (laughs!)

I knew absolutely nothing about finance or economics at that time, but I was determined to make the transition. I got a chance to speak with Professor Neil Pearson, a finance professor at UIUC, who advised me to look at the ‘Risk’ Magazine and learn some finance by myself. There were two highly mathematical research papers at the end of an issue that caught my attention. Having a strong mathematical background, I could understand all the mathematical and statistical calculations/analysis in those papers, although I could not comprehend any of the financial terminology. As I perused more articles, my confidence in my ability to solve mathematical models in finance grew. At that point, I took a big step in my pursuit of working on the Street and e-mailed the authors of those two articles in the Risk Magazine, Dr. Peter Carr at the Banc of America Securities and Dr. Michael Kamal at Goldman Sachs. Dr. Carr (who, later on I found, is a legend in mathematical finance!), replied back in 2 lines: ‘If you really want to work here, you have to walk on water. Call me if you are in the NYC area.’

CB: So, we presume you went to NYC?

AB: After some contemplation, I decided to fly to NYC; I figured I had nothing to lose. Dr. Carr set me up for an interview a few weeks later. Being a physics student throughout my life, I was not quite aware of the business etiquettes. So, when I appeared in my jeans, T-shirt and flip-flops at the Banc of America building at 9 West 57th Street, for an interview, there was a look on everyone’s face (from the front desk staffs to everyone I met) that I can never forget. Looking back, I still laugh at those times.

CB: Did you get an offer from Banc of America?

AB: Not at the first attempt. After the interview, I was quite positive that I would get an offer. However, as soon as I returned home, I received an email from Dr. Carr saying, “You are extremely smart, but the bank is composed of deal makers, traders, marketers, and investment bankers. We are looking for someone with business skills. You will not fit well here.” He suggested that we both write a paper on my derivation of Black-Scholes/Merton partial differential equation, or even possibly a book. He also suggested I read thoroughly (and to work out all the problems of) the book “Dynamic Asset Pricing Theory” by Darrell Duffie. In fact, Duffie’s book was my starting point in learning financial economics. I assume your readers never heard of this book. It is a notoriously difficult book on continuous time finance and it is intended for the very advanced Ph.D. students in financial economics. But, it was the right book for me – I read it without any difficulty in the math part and it provided me with a solid foundation in financial economics. Anyway, I think I am going too off tangent to your question.

CB: So, what did you do after you received that mail from Dr. Carr?

AB: The initial set back did not deter me. I already started to become aware of my lack of business skills. So I offered Dr. Carr to work as an unpaid intern at Banc of America to gain experience and to learn more about the financial industry and the business. Dr. Carr finally relented and made me an offer to work as an unpaid intern in his group during the summer of 1999.

CB: What did you do during the internship?

AB: Upon my arriving, Dr. Carr told me that, “A bank is not a place to study. A bank is a place to make money. Be practical.” This was probably the best piece of advice I could get. He gave me three tasks to help me get more familiar with finance and get closer to bankers. First, catalog and classify his books and papers on finance and at the same time flip through them. This way, believe it or not, I read tens of thousands of papers and other books that summer. Second, I helped test a piece of software, Sci-Finance, which would help traders to set and hedge exotic option prices. Thirdly, I answered math, statistics, and other quantitative modeling questions for equity, fixed income and options traders, and other investment bankers.

CB: Wow! That is a lot of reading for one summer. So, did you get a full time offer from Banc of America after your internship? What did you do after that?

AB: Yes, I got an offer for them, but then I had more than a year left to finish my PhD thesis, so I accepted an even better offer from Deutsche Bank next summer. I worked at Deutsche for three months in the summer of 2000. Then moved to Goldman Sachs for a while (where I gave seminars on finance theory to the quants, traders, and risk managers), then, after finishing my Ph.D., I took an offer from Merrill Lynch as the quant responsible for Convertible Bond valuation in their Global Equity Linked Products division in New York. I left Merrill after a few months to lead the North America’s Equity Derivatives Risk Management division in Société Generale. So, basically, I came to GSB after getting some hardcore real-world experience in a string of top investment banks.

CB: Are there any ‘special’ moments on Wall Street that you would like to talk about?

AB: Sure, there are many. But one that stands out is the day I started my internship at Banc of America. As is the norm in grad school or academia, I felt that I had to introduce myself to my colleagues. So, on my very first day of internship, I took the elevator to the floor where the top bosses of the bank had offices. I completely ignored the secretary at the front desk, knocked on the CEO and CFO’s door, walked in, and briefly introduced myself. Little did I know that this was not the norm in the business world!!! Shortly thereafter, Dr. Carr called me and advised that I stick to my cube instead of ‘just wandering around’! In retrospect, that was quite an experience!

CB: What made you interested in teaching after working for top dollar on Wall Street?

AB: You mean to say that professors here don’t get paid top dollar? (laughs)

I always planned to be in academia. To be totally honest with you, I never liked the culture of Wall Street. Much of the high profile business in Wall Street heavily relies on the academic finance research, but, after all, they are there to make money, not to cultivate knowledge. One must have two qualities to succeed well in this financial business: First, one must have a solid knowledge on the strengths and limitations of financial models (and the theory), which comes from cutting edge academic research, and second, one must have the skills to translate the academic knowledge into a money-making machine. I was good in the first category, but not as good in the second. …

Written by infoproc

July 28, 2007 at 8:00 pm

Posted in careers, finance, physics, quants